Curse

lutz · Jul 08, 2008, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Face it, all of the PvP Titles in Guild Wars are a joke.

Hero - a massive grind. Most of the rank 12 players are hardly even close to being the "top players" in Guild Wars.
Champion - another massive grind. With the introduction of buying/selling guilds, terrible players are able to achieve rank 2 or even rank 3 of Champion with relative ease. These points are easily bought.
Kurzick/Luxon - this isn't a PvP title. Alliance Battles can't be considered PvP.
Gladiator - another massive grind; it just depends on how long you are willing to stay in Team Arenas before you pass out.
Commander - I can't believe this is a title.

So, how do we remedy this problem? How do we get a PvP title that measures something that sort of matters?
Well, let's take a look at the PvP left in Guild Wars that truly means anything at all.
Random Arenas/Team Arenas - the title cannot involve any of these. Simple: too farmable, and too large of a player base to consider for a real title.
Hero's Ascent - already a title here.
GvG - while there's a large player base, restricting the title to the "top 10" guilds would be too exclusive, and it would be a massive grind for players to hit the top 10 - that's over 500 rating that needs to be gained, which is ridiculous. Champion points already exist, and that's already a problem since they are easily bought/sold.
Automated Tournaments - now we're getting closer to measuring true skill. The most problem here, though, is that most automated GvG tournaments are filled with AFK Guilds, so it's irrational to give a title based on how many wins/reward points/qualifier points you have earned in an Automated Tournament. However, a clever idea is proposed below.
Monthly Automated Tournaments - see below.

So now we've narrowed it down to ATs and mATs. The biggest problem of an AT is that there are too many AFK guilds, so I'd suggest a title based on ranking. Here's how it would go:

Conquerer: For every GvG automated tournament with at least 16 participating guilds, you gain one point whenever you place 1st and you participate in every round of the tournament.

Rank 1: 3 points
Rank 2: 7 points
Rank 3: 13 points
Rank 4: 18 points
Rank 5: 24 points
...

or,

Subjugator: For every Monthly Automated GvG Tournament Single Elimination round you win, you gain one point. (you lose 1 point if you have more than 3 monks on your team during a match; you gain 30 points if you win the tournament using Glyph of Sacrifice + Meteor Shower)

Rank 1: 1 point
Rank 2: 4 points
Rank 3: 8 points
Rank 4: 12 points
Rank 5: 16 points
Rank 6: 20 points
Rank 7: 24 points
Rank 8: 28 points
Rank 9: 32 points
...

RavagerOfDreams · Jul 08, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

no more titles

just take em all away problem solved

Gift3d · Jul 08, 2008, 06:15 AM // 06:15

I'll mostly agree with you on the title issue, and your suggestion isn't bad at all, having a PvP title that can't be farmed/grinded or easily exploited. It'd be a step in the right direction toward meaning or "skill>time" aspect behind titles, at least for GW2. It's tough when you start to think of solutions or similar examples of what you posted for other forms of PvP, now that i think about it actually...

But personally i consider myself to be a decent PvP'er, but find GvG excruciatingly boring. Your suggestion of Conqueror would clearly be one of the more "elite" titles to have, definitely a prestigious thing to show off, but being a casual player i'm more concerned about what should be done about the more low-end PvP titles, ya know? That is just me though.

But Conqueror just sounds like a badass title all in itself, none the less :P

lutz · Jul 08, 2008, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

I'll mostly agree with you on the title issue, and your suggestion isn't bad at all, having a PvP title that can't be farmed/grinded or easily exploited. It'd be a step in the right direction toward meaning or "skill>time" aspect behind titles, at least for GW2. It's tough when you start to think of solutions or similar examples of what you posted for other forms of PvP, now that i think about it actually...

But personally i consider myself to be a decent PvP'er, but find GvG excruciatingly boring. Your suggestion of Conqueror would clearly be one of the more "elite" titles to have, definitely a prestigious thing to show off, but being a casual player i'm more concerned about what should be done about the more low-end PvP titles, ya know? That is just me though.

But Conqueror just sounds like a badass title all in itself, none the less :P

I agree there should be a low-end GvG title; however, in doing so it'd be ridiculous. It'd be something like, the number of GvG matches in the top 1,000 you have won. To make it even worthwhile the number of matches required would be in the thousands for rank 5 or rank 6 - it'd just be a grindfest. In fact, it'd turn GvG into somewhat like HB, where people would just roll for the title to make things faster, which is stupid.

God of Killing · Jul 08, 2008, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Possible problem, I filled in on the opening match for qE at the invitation of Divine Ambassador, though I have previously owned a top 100 gvg guild, that was over 2 years ago. Since tourney rewards are based on the opening round rosters, wouldn't this give me a point? Even though I only played in one match? Take this a step farther, top guild notices they have a first round match against afk guild, suddenly they can "sell" 4 points as they can put 4 non guildies on their opening team and still win the first match. Assuming they then go on to win all remaining matches with their real players, the four people just got a point without any effort.

lutz · Jul 08, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by God of Killing

Possible problem, I filled in on the opening match for qE at the invitation of Divine Ambassador, though I have previously owned a top 100 gvg guild, that was over 2 years ago. Since tourney rewards are based on the opening round rosters, wouldn't this give me a point? Even though I only played in one match? Take this a step farther, top guild notices they have a first round match against afk guild, suddenly they can "sell" 4 points as they can put 4 non guildies on their opening team and still win the first match. Assuming they then go on to win all remaining matches with their real players, the four people just got a point without any effort.

I think you are blind. I already foresaw this problem. I already remedied it.

Quote:

Conquerer: For every GvG automated tournament with at least 16 participating guilds, you gain one point whenever you place 1st and you participate in every round of the tournament.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 08, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

/notsigned to your titles

The AB comment... I'll ignore to avoid me flaming you.

The only title that should be added for PvP, would either be a title for balthazar faction (preferred not) or a PvP version of KoaBD, but not for Maxing, but for ranks, so in order to max that, or even have a "good rank" you need to have to do all "PvP" titles (Commander, Gladiator, Champion, Hero) *I don't count Kurzick/Luxon titles because they can be gained through PvE as well, and NOT because "AB is not PvP" (which is it PvP)*

I don't agree with your title suggestions only because it favors to those with a good guild, still. It doesn't seem much different from Champion other then point system and the conditions.

lutz · Jul 08, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

/notsigned to your titles

The AB comment... I'll ignore to avoid me flaming you.

The only title that should be added for PvP, would either be a title for balthazar faction (preferred not) or a PvP version of KoaBD, but not for Maxing, but for ranks, so in order to max that, or even have a "good rank" you need to have to do all "PvP" titles (Commander, Gladiator, Champion, Hero) *I don't count Kurzick/Luxon titles because they can be gained through PvE as well, and NOT because "AB is not PvP" (which is it PvP)*

I don't agree with your title suggestions only because it favors to those with a good guild, still. It doesn't seem much different from Champion other then point system and the conditions.

The point of these titles is to avoid grind. Skill>time: the whole point of Guild Wars. In all honesty, these titles don't require that much time to acquire; you just have to be good enough to win 1st place in ATs and make it into the single elimination rounds.

Balthazar Faction and all the other PvP titles are grind (to a lesser extent, Champion over the double champion weekends). Champion can be bought and sold. These titles: I hardly doubt you'd be able to buy/sell these titles.

Alliance battles is as much PvP as clicking 12345 on your skill bar.

DarkNecrid · Jul 08, 2008, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Alliance battles is as much PvP as clicking 12345 on your skill bar.

I'll humor you, why are Alliance Battles not PvP?

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 08, 2008, 06:52 AM // 06:52

/not signed. Those title suggestions don't eliminate grind. They just introduce a new kind of grind.

lutz · Jul 08, 2008, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

I'll humor you, why are Alliance Battles not PvP?

Because you spend more time killing NPCs than actual players, and you are paired randomly with players you cannot cooperate with; but this is all besides the point.

Regardless, there are zero PvP titles that reward true skill. There should be a fix for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

/not signed. Those title suggestions don't eliminate grind. They just introduce a new kind of grind.

What grind? Practicing for monthly automated tournaments to improve your skill level? That's not called grind. Grind is mindless work that could possibly be done by anybody. The mAT is not mindless work that could be done by anybody. In fact, I doubt that acquiring the Qualifier Points to even qualify is "mindless work".

All you need to do is win once.

DarkNecrid · Jul 08, 2008, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Because you spend more time killing NPCs than actual players, and you are paired randomly with players you cannot cooperate with; but this is all besides the point.

So I guess GvG isn't real PvP then because it involves spending time killing NPCs (depending on your spot if you're splitting you'll be dealing with them way more than players too.).

Hmmm

PvP is Player versus Player. If its a player pitted against another player in a competitive versus "to the death" environment it is PvP. More over, they are all PvP outposts, force you to use PvP skills, and are defined PvP by the game. You are wrong.

kthnxbai

lutz · Jul 08, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

So I guess GvG isn't real PvP then because it involves spending time killing NPCs (depending on your spot if you're splitting you'll be dealing with them way more than players too.).

Hmmm

PvP is Player versus Player. If its a player pitted against another player in a competitive versus "to the death" environment it is PvP. More over, they are all PvP outposts, force you to use PvP skills, and are defined PvP by the game. You are wrong.

kthnxbai

The key element here, is that cooperation is possible amongst all players in GvG. If cooperation amongst all 12 players in Alliance Battles was possible (as in, you could choose your team of 12), then Alliance Battles would no doubt be an excellent format to play in. Without a doubt, it would require much more skill and cooperation than GvG, as it is a dedicated split format with more players.

ArenaNet isn't the smartest of groups, and having them define what is "PvP" isn't necessarily wise. Even though you are playing in a "PvP" format, you are pitted against terrible players who don't know simple splitting strategies/common sense. You aren't allowed to collaborate between your ENTIRE team, nor are you allowed to control most situations. It becomes, at the end, nothing more than a bad version of Random Arenas.

Competitive Player versus Player involves much more than button mashing and screaming at three other people. Competitive Player versus Player involves skill, tactics, common sense and above all, a deeper sense for the game. Alliance Battles involves none of that, and even if it does, a very minute level. Again, this discussion is on an actual PvP title, not about a bad PvE format.

Killed u man · Jul 08, 2008, 07:17 AM // 07:17

In GW, the general rule is:

Play alot > Play skillfull...

The fact that U can't loose Champ or Hero Points defeats the purpose of calling them PvP-"skill" titles...

If you can only GAIN a title, the worst player will eventually get Rank XX in track xx...

Konig Des Todes · Jul 08, 2008, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

The point of these titles is to avoid grind. Skill>time: the whole point of Guild Wars.

If you want to avoid grind, avoid PvP, because it is all the same thing, killing people over, and over, and over, and over... and.... over...

But in honesty here, any title basically means grind, except for a very few (Protector, Cartographer, Guardian, Vanquisher(arguable), Skill Hunter, Master of the North).

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Because you spend more time killing NPCs than actual players, and you are paired randomly with players you cannot cooperate with; but this is all besides the point.

You kill NPCs in RA, TA, HA, GvG, HB, Ziashen Challenge/Elite, yet those are considered PvP. You are pared randomly with players you cannot cooperate with in RA, yet that is still PvP. AB is PvP, just a different format then the other PvP forms. You can kill players in AB, therefore it is PvP, that is how I see it at least, and apparently how the game sees it, also FA and JQ are PvP. Easiest way to figure out if something is PvP or not, is to look for a little icon in the top left corner (by default) that looks like this.

BLOODGOAT · Jul 08, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

What does PvP stand for again? Oh yeah, PLAYER vs. PLAYER. Stop with your terrible argument, "QQ AB isn't PvP!!!"

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 08, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Face it, all of the PvP Titles in Guild Wars are a joke.

Hero - a massive grind. Most of the rank 12 players are hardly even close to being the "top players" in Guild Wars.
Champion - another massive grind. With the introduction of buying/selling guilds, terrible players are able to achieve rank 2 or even rank 3 of Champion with relative ease. These points are easily bought.
Kurzick/Luxon - this isn't a PvP title. Alliance Battles can't be considered PvP.
Gladiator - another massive grind; it just depends on how long you are willing to stay in Team Arenas before you pass out.
Commander - I can't believe this is a title.

Quote:

What grind? Practicing for monthly automated tournaments to improve your skill level? That's not called grind. Grind is mindless work that could possibly be done by anybody. The mAT is not mindless work that could be done by anybody. In fact, I doubt that acquiring the Qualifier Points to even qualify is "mindless work".

Gratz! you just called some of the most respected titles in the game "mindless work," and insulted some of the best players in the game.

Kronos Ledaloth · Jul 08, 2008, 08:04 AM // 08:04

/notsigned

titles like champion are exclusives for some players so, if someone have that, ppl can say that him is a good player on gvg

a little thing.....why ab isn't a pvp? (pvp= Player vs Player)

ps: sorry for my bad english

Proff · Jul 08, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Hero - a massive grind. Most of the rank 12 players are hardly even close to being the "top players" in Guild Wars.
Champion - another massive grind. With the introduction of buying/selling guilds, terrible players are able to achieve rank 2 or even rank 3 of Champion with relative ease. These points are easily bought.
Kurzick/Luxon - this isn't a PvP title. Alliance Battles can't be considered PvP.
Gladiator - another massive grind; it just depends on how long you are willing to stay in Team Arenas before you pass out.
Commander - I can't believe this is a title.

And yet I highly doubt you're even close to maxing any of them, GvG already has a title for it, no point in 2 more.

Everything is grind if you want it to be, ever heard of having fun?

/notsigned

Spacekay · Jul 08, 2008, 10:04 AM // 10:04

/notsigned

You can find grind in everything if you want. In GW time spent in PvP -> your PvP Rang, so it show other ppl that you HAS experience in PvP.
PvP rang that is show true skill rate must be as ladder, so it can be lost if someone has better skill.